Cloud10 - FR #11 ~First Date in a Club!~

[Cloud10]

This FR covers 7/24/09 & 7/25/09

On 7/24/09 I went to Old Town with a few buddies of mine.  It’s the usual thing where we hang out at DP for their free drinks and after that we head to Axis then Myst. Axis was pretty dead so when we get to Myst it was pretty much the same story. As I walked around I saw this lone cougar by the bar. Walk up, start talking to her and after a minute or so a guy comes up. I then start talking to him and it turns out he is her brother. We start talking more and I discover that he used to go to my school. After that point he starts giving me mad respect and tells me to “take care of her.” I’m thinking I’m in so I start dancing with her. She was giving me kino right off the bat since her arms were already wrapped around me. After dancing for 10mins and making out I take her to a corner and # close her. We continue to chat and make out. I think this is the point where things went downhill. I held her hand and guided it across my chest down to my dick but when it got close to there she stopped. I didn’t try again and after that point she said lets go look for her brother, in my head I thought “well there goes that…” When we found her brother I hung out for about a min and told them I was going to look for my friends so I wouldn’t be hovering around them. I went back to my friends; we chatted for a bit and agreed to head another club. They suggested that I bring them along so I thought “what the hell…” I got them to join us and when we got to Junkie, I tried chatting with the lone cougar but she was being distant. After about 10mins, I tried to get her to dance but she said she was going to stay with her brother. Oh well, I left her all together with her bro and gamed elsewhere in the club. I walked around the club and noticed this natural pull in a girl and kiss her. She didn’t accept it fully seeing as how she left right after. I then went up to him and tried to befriend him. I was pretty distant, kinda standoffish and I got the feeling that he didn’t want to be bothered. I kinda gave him respect (a part of me said not to) and walked around the club. I opened more sets but it didn’t really go anywhere, “Welcome to Scottsdale” is what he said when I was talking to him earlier. The club comes to a close and I see the natural with the same girl. I examine them for a bit and she seems to enjoy him. He locked her in and was kinoing her quite a bit. She seemed to be digging him but part of me said she was just entertaining him for some reason. As I head out of the club I said goodbye to him and try to get his number he kinda winced at me as if saying “yeah right” and went back to the girl. I then noticed the girl meet a friend of hers and at that point she pretty much wasn’t interested in the natural anymore. The natural didn’t bother sticking around and head towards the exit, as he passed me he said, “You blew it dude.” I didn’t look shocked or anything, I just stayed there for about 5mins then left the club myself. I saw him getting a cab and for some reason I went to apologize, he said something to which I couldn’t hear, I said “Say it again” and he replied “You heard me.” At that point I said ok, and walked away towards my car.
To be honest I don’t know if I ruined anything. It didn’t seem like she was fully digging him and it kinda made me think she needed an “out” and when she saw her friend, she had it. I told this to my friend and he said not to feel bad cause he was pretty much an asshole and if he blames his failure on others then don’t even bother. I agreed and left it at that.

On 7/25/09 I had my first “club date.” Some might have said it was a bad idea but I wanted to try it anyways, to push myself out of my comfort zone and for the experience. All in all it was a good experience. We chatted and danced throughout the whole night and had about 10mins of silence to which I was completely comfortable with. We had a good conversational flow going, I got her to massage my hands and come in close to me when I told her to. At one point I went to the restroom and when I went back to her, a guy was chatting her up. I tried to get in between him but he boxed me out! I then tried again and this time placed my hand on him in a friendly way. He then started talking to me. I was very friendly towards him and at that point he started giving me respect for not telling him to “Fuck off” and that she had found a good man. After that I met Luxberry for the first time and we were chatting. (I should let you know Lux that we did have an agreement, I put my foot down before the date that I had no intentions of being her sugar daddy, in a funny way. She understood and didn’t argue. I did offer and was completely cool with buying the first round so it was no biggie. I don’t feel that I was being manipulated at all.) Anyways we continue dancing throughout the night and chatting away. We head home and throughout our drive she was telling me how much of a good night she had and that Latin dancing next time would be really fun. It was a good date all in all in my opinion. I tried to kiss her twice but she turned away both times. I think it was because I was lightly coughing throughout the night because of the effect of my allergies (I was pretty much healed but all that was remaining was light coughing) she knew this so I think that’s why she turned away. Either that or she probably need more time because of her issue with her ex (she cheated on him and although she doesn’t outright say it, I sense that she’s very bitter about it).

Any thoughts on the natural and my date?



Thanks for reading.



Cloud10

[Luxberry the Great (mo money mo bitches)]

Hey whats up man. I was actually at Junkie Friday as well. I was reading your story and it almost sounded like my wing(was he black?) until the part about the cab.... cause he drove us home.

Was cool meeting you at the club. Like I said I was sick as hell(still am..) and no I don't think you were being taken advantage of with the drinks. I merely said what I said to her to shit test HER. Reading the FR about the date I can't really put in any insight but here is what I observed(from our 3 minutes together + dance floor) - I didn't feel you had a whole lot of attraction going on, she was very willing to jump ship. You saw it took an introduction and very light vibing and she started throwing IOIs at me(at which point you saw I started ignoring her and backing off "Baby I can't do this with you" also never say shit like "this guy is much better than me" or whatever you said, never DLV yourself). Here are some other things to think about... how sexual were you during the date? Did you ever make any statements of intent? How much kino was going on? I didn't observe any the two times I saw you off the dance floor... then you go to dance and it was like 0 to 60. ZERO separation on the dance floor. You were holding onto that chick like you were going to drown if you let her go.

Check this out
http://www.arizonapua.com/forum/index.php?topic=321.0

[Cloud10]

"Hey whats up man. I was actually at Junkie Friday as well. I was reading your story and it almost sounded like my wing(was he black?) until the part about the cab.... cause he drove us home."

Oh! No he wasnt black, a white middle aged man named James. He might be hostile towards me next time I'm at Junkie, It should be interesting if I see him again.

"Was cool meeting you at the club. Like I said I was sick as hell(still am..) and no I don't think you were being taken advantage of with the drinks. I merely said what I said to her to shit test HER."

You shit test women??? I totally didnt catch that, what do you mean? She said that you reminded her of her brother and that she picked up your personality from the start.

"Reading the FR about the date I can't really put in any insight but here is what I observed(from our 3 minutes together + dance floor) - I didn't feel you had a whole lot of attraction going on, she was very willing to jump ship. You saw it took an introduction and very light vibing and she started throwing IOIs at me(at which point you saw I started ignoring her and backing off "Baby I can't do this with you" also never say shit like "this guy is much better than me" or whatever you said, never DLV yourself)."

I already assumed attraction, or should I say, generating attraction never really occured to me. It didnt seems like she was willing to jump ship. She did say that she was here with me and wouldnt do something like that and she really enjoyed me taking her out seeing as she doesnt really date that much. She even talked about a day3 with salsa dancing. I DID notice you vibing with her in such a way that made her attracted. Its no wonder you can get 10's. Our vibing is more like sarcasm with like medium energy, not high like yours. She said she wasnt bored and that she left me to talk to you and didnt mean anything by it.

"Here are some other things to think about... how sexual were you during the date? Did you ever make any statements of intent? How much kino was going on? I didn't observe any the two times I saw you off the dance floor... then you go to dance and it was like 0 to 60. ZERO separation on the dance floor. You were holding onto that chick like you were going to drown if you let her go."

I did kino like you said. I tried to make out a couple of times but like I said before I was lightly coughing, she had ex (cheated) issues, and often said I was smooth and didnt want to run into a "player." I didnt really SOI her, I wanted to save it for a possible day3. Also, she said that she wasnt the ONS girls and was old fashioned. I know its not what they say its what they do. throughout the night I tought "what would happen if she was taken away." Well it depends, if it was by some stranger then although I would've been hurt but ultimately grateful for knowing it happened then and not later, if it had been someone like you or anyone I know, it would've felt much worse (I had it happen before, I'll tell you about it another time). I would've been hurt but I know I would've recovered throughout the night. She always talked about respect and even though I kinoed a lot, I didnt ass grab, I held her close, whispered in her ear, and kept her next to me. I honestly didnt feel like I would drown if I had "let go of her" its just that it was only me and her "against the world" and I didnt want to disrepect her by chatting up other chicks. It wasnt that I saw her as the prize, it was pretty much my own moral code.

On the dance floor, we often exchanged sexy looks like "yeah, we're absolutely loving it right now." in my opinion. Later on I called her out and wanting to be in control and she often qualified herself on that and not just that but many other things too that I cant remember. All in all this was the first time I've taken someone out to the clubs in the form of a date so I'm sure I have plenty to learn. In terms of alpha and beta male, I dont think about that, I am simply me, I dont think about acting dominant cuz I know that when it counts I DO step up to the plate. In terms of you and I, you are more "alpha" than I am. I'm more laid back.

P.S. I didnt notice that I DLV'ed myself, in my mind, I was simply giving you props.


Cloud10

[Luxberry the Great (mo money mo bitches)]

Just got your text... like I said good stuff.

You shit test women??? I totally didnt catch that, what do you mean? She said that you reminded her of her brother and that she picked up your personality from the start.

Not really shit testing them, its more of the push pull concept. Example - girl says buy me a drink, I say why don't you buy US a drink? She responds logically or with some chick BS, I tease her on this being 2009 and validity of role reversal(which is obvious BS as I am still leading/dominant kino and she can feel this). Look up Swingcat's stuff or the push pull theory. But yes I shit test women all the time. "You don't look very adventurous" or "I like girls that have passion for life." Notice it's a STATEMENT and often times said in the same tonality a girl would say if she were to say "Buy me a drink."

I get the whole "You remind me of someone" ALL the time. I believe this to be a good thing because people also tell me I am easy to relate and talk to. I take this as a blessing from years in the field and my growing up around the world(army brat). Brother is NOT a bad thing. I've gotten that while making out with a girl with an obvious boner poking her. It's only bad if you're "friend like a brother." Also you helped the vibe out by me being YOUR friend. She HAS to be cool to me or she may lose points from you.

I already assumed attraction, or should I say, generating attraction never really occured to me. It didnt seems like she was willing to jump ship. She did say that she was here with me and wouldnt do something like that and she really enjoyed me taking her out seeing as she doesnt really date that much. She even talked about a day3 with salsa dancing. I DID notice you vibing with her in such a way that made her attracted. Its no wonder you can get 10's. Our vibing is more like sarcasm with like medium energy, not high like yours. She said she wasnt bored and that she left me to talk to you and didnt mean anything by it.

Until you get to a point where you just ARE, you ALWAYS have to be generating attraction.. even with GIRLFRIENDS. If you haven't read this girls are very state dependent. The vibing was completely unconscious and once I realized what was happening I backed off. I'd like to see your approach to a cold set where you assume attraction.. this week maybe. Honestly the whole player shit/ex shit, etc.. is usually BS. Those are shit tests/her framing you.. not where you want to be. It's good you guys were "together" and she respected that, no matter what the exact scenario. If you think about every shitty scenario in the book.. I've had it happen to me. Ive gamed girls all night and my equally socially savvy yet more ripped wing will roll up and they have to consciously not game... had girls stolen by randoms, etc.. you name it it's happened.

In terms of alpha and beta male, I dont think about that, I am simply me, I dont think about acting dominant cuz I know that when it counts I DO step up to the plate. In terms of you and I, you are more "alpha" than I am. I'm more laid back.

I'm really laid back but I LEAD the conversation. Alpha to ME = doing the right thing and understanding feminine/masculine polarity. It's not a "super hardcore marine guy" mentality. Trust me.. it ALWAYS counts. Tim talks about "The Golden Rhythm" where he is in game mode/chill mode. It's a fine balance.

Anyways good shit. She was a cutie. Like I said before.. this was all casual observation, we can go out later this week and Ill check out your cold approach, you are obviously dedicated and laid back like you said. I had a guy with like 4 posts send me a PM and then he texts me saying shit like "Hey I want to follow you around to see if you are someone I could learn something from and if I would actually hang out with you." What the fuck is that?

[Cloud10]

"Not really shit testing them, its more of the push pull concept. Example - girl says buy me a drink, I say why don't you buy US a drink? She responds logically or with some chick BS, I tease her on this being 2009 and validity of role reversal(which is obvious BS as I am still leading/dominant kino and she can feel this). Look up Swingcat's stuff or the push pull theory. But yes I shit test women all the time. "You don't look very adventurous" or "I like girls that have passion for life." Notice it's a STATEMENT and often times said in the same tonality a girl would say if she were to say 'Buy me a drink.'"

Damn! I often forget concepts when I'm in set, I forget about push/pull, C&F and things like that, its more like: Go in set and say "Hi how are you?" if they respond with "fine, how are you?" its on. From that point its like: say this, OK!, do this OK!, take them here, OK! talk about this, OK! go for kiss, OK! crap she denied me, ok say this, OK! lead them here, OK! dance with them, OK! take her to her friends, OK! get to know her friends, OK! ok isolate her outside, OK! so on and so forth until I "feel" like the magic (or attraction) is lost or I get stuck and cant do anything more. Everytime I went sexual with SOI's, the girl seems to back off and even though I plow, it often feels like a wasted effort. Not that I dont try though, I keep trying until it I get the point that she lost interest completely. One time I was literally with a girl for about 2hrs of plowing. Part of my mind say its nothing but a wasted effort but the other past just stay in for the experience of it. At the end of that experience about 95% said "see, I told you it wouldnt amount to anything" while the remaining 5% said, "you shouldnt have given up."

"Until you get to a point where you just ARE, you ALWAYS have to be generating attraction.. even with GIRLFRIENDS. If you haven't read this girls are very state dependent. The vibing was completely unconscious and once I realized what was happening I backed off. I'd like to see your approach to a cold set where you assume attraction.. this week maybe. Honestly the whole player shit/ex shit, etc.. is usually BS. Those are shit tests/her framing you.. not where you want to be. It's good you guys were "together" and she respected that, no matter what the exact scenario. If you think about every shitty scenario in the book.. I've had it happen to me. Ive gamed girls all night and my equally socially savvy yet more ripped wing will roll up and they have to consciously not game... had girls stolen by randoms, etc.. you name it it's happened."

I noticed your vibing, honestly it crossed my mind that it was highly likely that you could've taken her away. I most likely would've felt like complete shit (this happened 2 times to date so I havent exactly gotten used to it. I would say that its worse when someone who could be a potential friend or is actually a friend as opposed to some stranger guy. I have a natural friend who said "the reason why guy fuck up so much is that they simply think themselves out of it." that's where that OK! OK! OK! thought pattern came into play. I feel that if I'm always thinking about generating attraction instead feeling 99% comfortable with myself and what's around me, that's attraction right there! I'm trying to internalize this but past experiences and personal issues sometimes have me think otherwise. I think that always having to generate attraction means that you are already DLVing yourself becuase you dont see yourself as good enough so you have to do something to keep her. I'm not saying to be lazy or ignore her, its just that maybe it comes off as try hard...maybe this isnt the right frame of mind to be coming from and I should reframe it into something else?

"I'm really laid back but I LEAD the conversation. Alpha to ME = doing the right thing and understanding feminine/masculine polarity. It's not a "super hardcore marine guy" mentality. Trust me.. it ALWAYS counts. Tim talks about "The Golden Rhythm" where he is in game mode/chill mode. It's a fine balance."

I would say that I do lead as far as moving her and leading the convo but its not exactly 100%. For example, I do lead her with body language, hold her hand as we walk somewhere else, say lets go dance and either take her by the hand or walk to the dance floor assuming she's going to follow (she often does...). BUT, when it comes to convo its a little complicated. I'm noticing more and more during our convo that women sometimes talk over me.  Part of me thinks, "uh-oh is she trying to control me?" In which case I just let her talk because I dont feel like arguing, I simply let her state her opinion, I'll state mine and be done with it, dont waste energy trying to be controlling because I roll with a couple of people like that and to be honest I find it annoying and if I do, wont the women feel annoyed 10x more?

About you saying she was framing me by the player talk, etc? That really didnt occur to me, what went through my mind was "Oh man, someone obviously hurt her before OR damn, she's been played OR I DESPISE them kind of men that do these kinds of things to women! OR she was even saying: 'please dont hurt me, dont toy with me like that or play me!" That's honestly what crossed my mind. I felt that she was very insecure and I dont want to do anything that might hurt her. I guess I'm a pacifist when it comes to women in that respect. So I would say that yeah, I definately did go out of my way to not be viewed as a player but then again, I was completely honest and although I didnt really go with the sexual talk, I wanted to save that for we she was MORE comfortable with me. I didnt want to go sexual/player route, I wanted to go possible relationship (VERY LIGHT RELATIONSHIP) route.

"Anyways good shit. She was a cutie. Like I said before.. this was all casual observation, we can go out later this week and Ill check out your cold approach, you are obviously dedicated and laid back like you said. I had a guy with like 4 posts send me a PM and then he texts me saying shit like "Hey I want to follow you around to see if you are someone I could learn something from and if I would actually hang out with you." What the fuck is that?"

Damn really? Did what I say sound needy? Honestly, I'm looking for help. No ego, or pride aside if I feel that someone can help me then I'll simply ask them for help. Its funny, I've been told that I'm needy with the way I talk to people but to me its not that way at all, at least 90% of the time. I'm very happy talking up other people, complimenting them, telling them there a good guy and I dont know if I could see myself doing what they do, it might sound needy to the third party but in my mind, I like making people happy with my words. Non-Needy but instead its value giving. I dont like how everyone is put on a value/pedestal. I truly see people as equal to an extent. I dont like comparing people but in terms of me and you, I feel like you are better than me in terms of women, but I probably better than you in other fields so why do people have to view themselves as better than others? I truly believe in seeing the good in people so I'm friendly to whoever I meet, if it come across as needy or other people say I'm need, this is ALL THEIR OPINION or ALL THEIR OPINION BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE READ IN A BOOK OR SOCIETAL BEHAVIOR. that's why when you said that I DLV'ed myself, my frame is that I was simply talking you up: no pedestals, no values, no who's better, but simply from one human being from another. My simply giving you respect until you do something that loses it. This isnt only to you but every man and woman I come across.

In terms of alpha male and beta male, there was something my "unofficial mentor" once said to me: "Dont ever let someone tell you you're beta because there was something about you that made her attracted to you." I made not display alpha behavior like people I know and it may cause me to LOSE 99% of the girls I meet to "alpha" guys but look at this way, isnt that 1% truly worth your time because she sees the "you", not the alphaness, not the dominance, but simply you? This isnt directs towards you, this is more about how i've been "feeling" out-alphaed throughout all my life. A sticking point a havent exactly conquered yet.

I'm sure we can learn many things from one another and this is said in a completely in a non-needy, non-defensive, non-value taking way.

P.S. Maybe this should've been a PM?


Cloud10